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I think that both arguments for simplification and for more nuance are valid. Personally, I only feel strongly about easy following. I don’t really care whether you unify all tags into a single originator:xxx or if you make the separate editor:xxx/prompter:xxx/artist:xxx imply originator:xxx.

@Background Pony #F22A
Generally speaking, current models are better than most “traditional artists” IMO, but gen AI is also less flexible and often makes some errors, which require human intervention to fix.

in terms of potential is generative AI already better than what “traditional artists” can do? if not how far off are we from that in your estimation?

One singular tag for creator is perfectly fine. Can literally be anything.

I think prompter:zero112 should be aliased to prompter:zero112113.

https://tantabus.ai/tags/prompter-colon-zero112
https://tantabus.ai/tags/prompter-colon-zero112113

@MareStare
I simply disagree with your opinion that few people care as in such they don’t matter.

I used my filter as an example of what I see as the ordinary user. That’s it. I just do not see how this:

contradicts with this:

“Very few” does not mean zero. So I’m not sure what you wanted to say with that. My suggestion was a compromise approach whereby role tags are optional, if people want to use them, they can add them. For common users that don’t care they may omit them, but the “creator” tag should be mandatory.

@MareStare
I am trying to take into account people who’s opinions are not mine, there is a person in this very thread who’s opinion isn’t what you are assuming. I’m not sure what your filter has to do with anything or what you added to it, that isn’t relevant.

I’m speaking from the experience of using derpibooru/tantabus and having nothing more than grotesque, morbidly obese and some creator tags added to filters. I’ve been using the standard Everything for years until very recently. Mostly looking through the first several pages of the most recent posts, trending, and checking the faves. I believe most people who aren’t involved in tagging, day-to-day metadata updates and power-using the system are just like that. Since many such low-end people do not even read forums or sit on Tantabus Discord, their opinions are left in a void, and it’s important to take that into account. Some common sense guesswork here is unavoidable

@MareStare
That’s a big assumption to make that even I’m not making and I find that assuming like that isn’t practical and only serves to make someone’s opinion seem more important than it is.

That’s why I mentioned

Meaning there is demand from power users, but it’s low because the number of power users is naturally low.

I do, I care, a lot. I also care a lot about indexing roles. I also search for those tags like wings and open mouth a lot.

https://tantabus.ai/tags/silver+zoom
https://tantabus.ai/tags/storm+king
https://tantabus.ai/tags/peachy+sweet

All should be character tags.

Knowing what role a person played in the project is cool just for bookkeeping and historical purposes, but not for indexing purposes. Here’s what I mean by that.

We have a bunch of tags like wings, horn, tail, shirt, desk, open mouth and other minor tags like that which (I think) very rarely get searched for. Meaning people rarely put them into the search box when they come to visit the site and see what new art has been posted, or into the faves and filters. I think very few power users have such specific filters.

Same thing with the creator tags. Very few people care about the role the creator played in the art piece. I think the “creator” tag would have a much greater demand than artist/editor/prompter. I guess it’s fine to keep the “role” tags as metadata facts but at most as best-effort tags. We may not even always know what role people played in the art piece when it gets reposted to tantabus by a 3-rd party who didn’t take part in the creative process. On the contrary I think at least one “creator” tag should be enforced, unless explicit “anonymous creator” or “unknown creator” tag is assigned.

@Scarlet Ribbon
But does an average user care about distinctions like that? Especially if (in the vast majority of cases) “artist”, “prompter” and “editor” would be the same person? I think this distinction is just unnecessary.

@tyto4tme4l
Precisely, since the goal IS “anyone can illustrate this”, good quality is an added bonus, and the only “ trivial” problems are getting the people with things to say to realize that, and getting the target audience(s) to adjust their expectations for what “I have little artistic talent, but I do have passion to say something” LOOKS like visually.

This thread and/or site could contribute to both of those with some focused intent, but I have pushed “the ball” as far as I can think of how to do (at least for now), and I hope other people pick it up and run with it at least a bit further here.

I don’t know how others are using them, but I would use them as follows:

artist: A person who creates any input work that is pre-existing art into the AI pipeline
prompter: A person who actually writes the prompt/creates the workflow/engages the AI portion of the process
editor: A person who edits the AI output into a finished product

These are absolutely all useful tags that have no business being removed from stuff, however, they’re only useful if they’re being applied correctly.

After reading about how ‘effort’ tags already exist, I now fully agree with a “creator” tag. With “Editor” remaining for it’s intended purpose, for when someone else was the prompter.

Edit: If someone puts someone elses generated art back into the ai generator, I assume if the original image is still clearly there, like in cases here people put someone’s generated art into an AI purely to animate it, that the right tag to use would be “creator” for both of them? Or would you use an editor tag for the second prompter? Just unsure if editor is the right tag when it’s the AI doing the editing. This is the one thing I can’t yet wrap my head around to be sure on.

thanks

@Background Pony #8303
Not any come to mind that were just as a meme or “to prove a point”… as in no real “caught” cases afaik.

so we all know of cases of artists getting caught using AI. Do you know of cases where someone presented their work as having been done with AI but it was actually done without AI? for context back during the days when CGI was new and exciting, scenes that were made with traditional special effects were sometimes marketed as having been done with CGI

Unifying prompter and artist into creator or director, and setting apart editor for third-party edits seems like a good idea.

As someone who came to the platorm quite recently, I found the terms to be quite muddled. prompter implies creator makes a prompt and doesn’t necessarily draw, and artist implies large hand-drawn edits. editor is vague, does painting over a ghost signature make one an editor of their own picture? Or does that constitute being an artist? Or is it too small of a change to warrant a second creator tag at all? Am I an artist if I generate through complex workflow and bake in all the changes there, without touching a graphics editor? If I edit someone else’s work with Photoshop, would that make me an artist in addition to editor?